Your book seems to express an optimistic realism. Is this a correct take on how you see things?

ROY CULLEN: In addition to being an optimist by nature, I have seen first hand how world leaders who are committed to contain corruption can curtail it in their home countries. I am also encouraged by the fact that citizens of the world are becoming more aware of the incidence and cost of corruption, and the need to do something about it.
          I don’t think we want the kind of unhinged optimism that lets people be naïve about the enormous challenges involved in eliminating or significantly reducing the incidence of global corruption. The pessimist’s alternative, however, of just turning a blind eye to the problem or shrugging it off, is not a course of action I can accept. We have moral responsibilities.

 How do you see this greater awareness by people?

CULLEN: I think the Convention Against Corruption, which was adopted by the United Nations General Assembly in 2003, is a good example of the world coming together to tackle this huge problem. That is realism, but you don’t act that way unless you have hope that something can be done.
Resolutions are important, and show awareness, but action by corrupt countries will be the real test.

 What are the chances of that?

CULLEN: Through my work with the Global Organization of Parliamentarians Against Corruption, or “GOPAC” for short, I have seen how courageous parliamentarians have taken on the challenge of fighting corruption. Sometimes, in fact quite often, they are doing this at great personal risk to themselves. I am now more aware of the crucial role that legislators can play in holding their governments to account for their corrupt activities through effective oversight.
          A free and independent media, an honest judiciary, institutions like the office of auditor-general and a public accounts committee or their equivalents, are all tools that parliamentarians can use to fight corruption and money laundering in their own jurisdictions, and achieve results.

 You are very passionate about the scourge of poverty and the problem of corruption. How did you get involved with this issue?

CULLEN: Back in 2000 the chair of GOPAC, John Williams, who is a colleague of mine in the House of Commons in Ottawa, invited me to join the fight against global corruption. I guess he recognized that because I have worked and lived abroad, and also participated in meetings with parliamentarians from many other countries, I had been exposed to the huge economic and social costs of corruption. So I readily accepted his invitation and I have been closely involved with GOPAC ever since.
          In 2002, for instance, I participated in theGlobal Conference of Parliamentarians Against Corruption in Ottawa which brought together over 150 parliamentarians to officially launch GOPAC as an institution. GOPAC has now grown to over 700 parliamentarians in all regions of the world.

 What do you see ahead?

CULLEN: Fighting and eliminating corruption will involve a massive concerted effort involving organizations, institutions, governments and parliaments around the world. These efforts, however, will be orchestrated by individuals, like myself and many others, whose work and dedication will have an impact and result in collective action.
          GOPAC is now an excellent vehicle to engage parliamentarians in this fight, frankly, and individual parliamentarians are making a difference. I am hoping that The Poverty of Corrupt Nations will cause citizens of the world and policy makers to take up the challenge to accelerate the fight against corruption and money laundering.

 What do you see as the challenges in overcoming corruption, considering the role of more developed and democratic countries?

CULLEN: In a perfect world corrupt regimes would not receive the support of democratically elected and ethical governments. One should recognize, however, that no country in the world is completely free of corruption. It is a matter of degree, and equally misleading to equate the level of corruption in a country like Bangladesh with that in, say, the United Kingdom. We can compare the incidence of corruption in different jurisdictions in relative terms only.
          In addition, sometimes national security interests trump our distaste for corruption. This was true during the Cold War when the West was prepared to look the other way if a regime was opposed to communism, for example, and it is still a factor more recently in the new world context. Afghanistan is a good example. Corruption is rife in that country but the United Nations and NATO countries have been strongly committed to supporting the Afghan government of President Hamid Karzai because of a view that stability in that country is an important piece in the fight against international terrorism.

 What motivated you to write this book?

CULLEN: The Poverty of Corrupt Nations draws on my international experience in both the private and public sectors. It is the work of a general practitioner, not an academic expert in the field of corruption and money laundering.
          Not every proposition, theory or hypotheses presented in this book is accompanied by tomes of research data. Some are, but other ideas are drawn from my own personal experience and my devotion to this topic over many years.
          In that context, I wrote this book in the hope readers will consider my comments and proposals and draw their own conclusions. I am confident that ideas and suggestions in this book, some of my own and others that I report, can help us collectively to move the yardsticks, to advance the fight against corruption.